New to site....and I have a question

[alexandersaks1]

So over the past year or so ive become borderline obsessed with buying a vintage ducati. I love my 848 and hypermotard but something about the older ducs just makes me drool....Basically im just worried about the maintainence on the vitage ducatis.....Im not the most mechanically inclined motorcycle owner (i work in finance) so a complete restoration would probably be out of the question....I have however looked into either restored or just well maintained (for their age) bikes but ive never pulled the trigger because frankly I dont know anything about these bikes and unfortunately there isnt much online about say a 1957 Ducati 125 T that I looked at today that went for 2500 on ebay with 14k miles and in halfway decent shape (at least in my eyes)......if anyone can give me an idea of what id be getting myself into in terms of maintaining a vintage ducati that I would be riding quite a bit please let me know

One more quick example, I had been talking to a guy about a 1985 Pantah 600 (S maybe?) with 21k miles in great condition that the buyer was asking 3300 for and has since lowered the price to 3300 (neg) which means I could probably walk away with it for 3k or slightly under....is that a good price for a bike like that? and if so am I just going to pour thousands of dollars a year into maintaining the thing


I know this was a long post but thanks a lot to whoever responds to it

[Craig in France]

<snip> I had been talking to a guy about a 1985 Pantah 600 (S maybe?) with 21k miles in great condition that the buyer was asking 3300 for and has since lowered the price to 3300 (neg) which means I could probably walk away with it for 3k or slightly under....is that a good price for a bike like that? and if so am I just going to pour thousands of dollars a year into maintaining the thing

Hi Alexander (I guess ..?)

I'll reply to the Pantah question first ...

There's not much wrong with a Pantah 600 - it's full name was a Pantah 600 SL, btw - and that sounds a good price. However, Pantahs are physically quite small so, depending how tall/large you are, you perhaps just want to check how you're comfortable on it.

Also ...

1. The best reference book is probably Ian Falloon's Ducati Belt-drive Two-valve Twins.

2. Seeing as this is a forum for the bevel drive Ducatis and the Pantah was the first of the belt driven models, you may do better joining the Pantaheads list on Micapeak; or posting to Ducati.ms or perhaps Ducatisti.co.uk ...

HTH

Craig

[Craig in France]

<snip> I dont know anything about these bikes and unfortunately there isnt much online about say a 1957 Ducati 125 T that I looked at today that went for 2500 on ebay with 14k miles and in halfway decent shape (at least in my eyes)......if anyone can give me an idea of what id be getting myself into in terms of maintaining a vintage ducati that I would be riding quite a bit please let me know

Hi Alexander (again),

As to the singles, such as the 125T you mention:

Good points:
1. They're singles! . So, theoretically, there's only half as much to go wrong or to be maintained.

2. They come from an age when things were meant to be re-built. So (theoretically again) there's nothing that can't be fixed or mended.

Poor points
1. See point 2 above. Things DO go wrong, and can do so on a fairly regular basis (You know the adage: "Race it on Sunday, go to work on it Monday to Friday, strip and re-build it on Saturday, ready for the race on Sunday ...")

2. Obviously both design and manufacturing standards are of their time. Some of the inherent faults can be surmounted by the application of modern technology - ignition systems for example. Others, less so - brakes, suspension and frames come to mind.

3. They're small. Do not expect to go cruising long distances, up hill and down dale, in comfort.

For me, it was a question of getting a bike that I always liked the look of, a 450 SCR. Apart from some early ignition problems, it's been great fun and has served me well, including doing the Motogiro d'Italia in 2008. However, I did do a bare frame re-build . And it's not my only bike, either



HTH - I'm sure others will chip in.

Ciao

Craig

[alexandersaks1]

thanks a lot for your respones as to the pantah and 125...Im definitely more interested in the pre pantah bevel driven ducatis as their look is truly stunning. I walked by a ducati single the other day in new york city (unfortunately i have no idea what it was) and it was absolutely stunning. I understand that theyre not the biggest bikes (it doesnt help that im a big guy....college football....6'2" 250 pounds) and that I wouldnt be taking them on long trips but I would really love to have something that wont be too expensive to aquire or maintain that I can zip around on...Is it right to assume that if somethign went seriously wrong with one of these ducs that my ducati dealership that handles my modern ducs could handle the maintenence and repairs?

[Craig in France]

<snip> Is it right to assume that if somethign went seriously wrong with one of these ducs that my ducati dealership that handles my modern ducs could handle the maintenence and repairs?

No, absolutely not . The factory doesn't support the bikes so, for a dealership, getting parts is a commercial impossibility. And the technicians in most modern dealerships will have no experience (and, most likely, no interest) in working on them. Show most of them a points ignition system and they won't know what to do with it ... . And, anyway, the boss can make more money getting his guys to tend to the new stuff (as well as selling Ducati Corse add-ons to the owners as they wait ... ).

But don't take my word for it. Go ask - you never know, you might find one guy who cares about the old stuff, and an indulgent owner ... My local dealer here knows nothing and admits to it, even if the last time I swung by a couple of the teccies came out to gawp and and ask questions .

OK, if you want to get a bevel drive, you need to:

1. Build your basic knowledge with some reading. Ian Falloon's Standard Catalog of Ducati Motorcycles is a good start. You can buy it from the owner of this Forum, Steve Allen http://shop.bevelheaven.com/SearchResul ... egoryID=10 .

2. Stay on here, read thru the back postings and continue posting your own.

3. Get on the Bevelheads e-mail list on Micapeak - link here BevelHeads . Lots of people there, living in the USA, who will be able to guide you (and probably even find you a bike, or at least go look one over for you :-)

Ciao

Craig

[alexandersaks1]

thanks craig...I actually ordered the ducati history catalog 2 days ago so it should be here any day...while its kind of a drag that modern ducati techs and bologna have no interest in the bevel driven ducs I guess its not all that bad because as you say its only one cylinder to work with and I guess learning how to do everything on my own would save me the 115 dollars an hour the ducati techs charge here in NYC.....well anyways thanks for the info and I look forward to learning as much as I can and hopefully one day sooner than later owning a bevel driven ducati



Alex

[BevHevSteve]

Coupla quick points

This forum is not limited to bevel drives - it is a vintage ducati forum welcoming bevelheads, pantaheads and rubber band heads.

You are in NYC so I suggest you contact moto borgotaro - one of the forum sponsors in your neck of the woods for all your service needs.

If you "want a bevel" you need to come up with a budget and we can advise you from there as to which models you might find that will be within your budget.

[Craig in France]

<snip>
You are in NYC so I suggest you contact moto borgotaro - one of the forum sponsors in your neck of the woods for all your service needs.

Nice lead, Steve. A relatively new guy on the block, it would appear? Excellent! Hope it goes well for him.

If you "want a bevel" you need to come up with a budget and we can advise you from there as to which models you might find that will be within your budget.

Starting with a Condor and working up from there ?

Ciao

Craig

[abmartin]

Hi Alex,

There is an 860GTS on Ebay right now and its not that far from you. As far as I can tell from the photos it looks to be very clean with the main departure from standard being a two-into-one header with a Supertrapp muffler. The asking price doesn't seem to be unreasonable.

People will slag these bikes for their supposedly less than reliable ignition systems but I never had any problems with my old 860. They are also easier to maintain because they have screw-type valve adjusters rather than desmo cylinder heads.

Bruce

[BevHevSteve]

just new on THIS block - they guy has been working on euro bikes for quite awhile.

[alexandersaks1]

I saw the 860 GTS on ebay and while its nice im really loving the smaller ducati singles (also not sure id be ready to pull the trigger on another bike until I give more thought as to what I want exactly).....the 125's, 250's and 350's.....Maybe I need to see one of these bikes in person to get an idea of just how small they are (especially becuase im so big) but something about them just makes me drool....does anyone have any input on what the ownership/riding experience is like for one of the smaller ducati singles? Are the something I could ride 15 or 20 miles a week and feel safe doing so? as for a budget i havent given it much thought and it would really depend on the bike....ive seen past sales of the smaller ducati singles in very good condition for around 3 grand and I think thats reasonable....I definitely wouldnt be looking to put 10k into a vintage ducati but something in the couple to few thousands would definitely be on my radar....the big thing for me is really the restoration/maintainence....I have no problem learning how to restore and maintain a vintage ducati but I dont want to have to budget a thousand dollars to maintain a bike every couple hundred miles that I ride it.

again guys, thanks for all of the input and I look forward to learning more on this forum

[GT Pete]

I recently bought a 350 single. I had previously owned a 750GT. The single is a lot smaller than the twin. I am six feet tall and would probably fit better with rearsets, but it is not too bad. My ride to work is 15 miles each way. That is about as far as I would want to ride without stopping. Compared to the 350, the 750GT was much more powerful and smoother. The 350 is nice on the back roads at about 45 mph. If I ride two up with my wife, I am lucky to get 55 mph out of the bike.The single is fun though and at this stage in my life, I appreciate the smaller bike when I have to move it around the garage or put it up on the centerstand. Plus, it still has that Ducati sound.

As far as maintenance, the bike was a runner when I bought it. It didn’t take long for all the old seals to give up. I have replaced the fork seals, rear shocks, kickstarter shaft seal, all the carb seals and gaskets, and gas cap seal. Other rubber parts I replaced were the handlebar grips, shifter rubber, kickstarter rubber and the rubber gasket in the taillight. There were a few minor electrical issues to straighten out also. Nothing was hard to fix and the parts weren’t too expensive. Otherwise, it has been change the oil, gas and go.

[Craig in France]

<snip> ....does anyone have any input on what the ownership/riding experience is like for one of the smaller ducati singles? Are the something I could ride 15 or 20 miles a week and feel safe doing so?

Good grief, Alex, yes! That's just a little shopping trip! Ok, I'm only 5'11" and 155lbs , but I regularly ride mine 100 miles a day and, on trips 3 or 4 times that!

Unless you particularly warm to the styling of one of the earlier models, I reckon your best bet would be a 250, 350 or 450 of what is called the 'wide case' type. 'Wide case' just refers to the width of the engine case at the rear mounting points, btw. But these are the later models, 1967-1974, and therefore have a few plus points regarding reliabilty and availability of spares (not that Ducati single parts are especially difficult to find, anyway). Also, some of the narrow-case models can be more expensive - for one thing, racers tend to like them and the whole Motogiro thing has tended to inflate the price of pre-1957 bikes too.

Here's a 350 Mark 3, for example. The high(ish) bars might suit you best.


(Owner's blog here http://www.usq.edu.au/users/grantd/moto ... 450MK3.HTM).

The Desmo version - complete with clip-ons and rear sets - will cost you more but, unless you particularly go for the styling or feel a need to own a Desmo 'because it's a Desmo', you don't gain much in normal use ...

as for a budget i havent given it much thought and it would really depend on the bike....ive seen past sales of the smaller ducati singles in very good condition for around 3 grand and I think thats reasonable....I definitely wouldnt be looking to put 10k into a vintage ducati but something in the couple to few thousands would definitely be on my radar ....the big thing for me is really the restoration/maintainence....I have no problem learning how to restore and maintain a vintage ducati but I dont want to have to budget a thousand dollars to maintain a bike every couple hundred miles that I ride it.

I reckon your buying budget is ok (unless you want a Desmo). A little more might widen the field a bit. But talk to Steve A. - he'll have a better grip on prices than I do.

But your maintenance budget is WAY out :-) . I spend next to nothing on the maintenance of either of my singles - change the oil every 1,500 miles, spray the chain once in a while and ... well, that's it, really! Tires last for ever, for example.

Ciao

Craig

[alexandersaks1]

Craig, that sounds like the perfect machine for me. I definitely do not "need" a desmo or rear sets/clipons. I really like the look of the mark 3. And I think youre right about the age of the biek I should be looking at...late 60's early 70's makes more sense than a 1957 and im thrilled to hear how easy they are to maintain. I wish my modern ducati's were that worry free. Im definitely one step closer to pulling the trigger on a vintage single and I must admit that I check ebay and other classifieds every couple hours to see if anything that tickles me has been put up

[Craig in France]

Craig, that sounds like the perfect machine for me. <snip>

Yup, one of my favorite Ducatis too. Some people might prefer something with a little more chrome but, as Ian Falloon say, "The blue and gold colors were particularly attractive".

Here's a photo of a mate of mine's at the meet at Colombres (Spain) in October this year.



He rides it everywhere, as you can tell from the route holder. I've told him to let me know if he ever wants to sell it (fat chance ... ).

Good points
1. I can't think of any part that you cannot get, and at a reasonable price too. Look here, for example - most of these parts were also fited to the Mark 3.
http://www.ducatiscrambler.com/2006/ricambiitalia.htm

2. They had twin leading shoes front brakes so they stop pretty well.

3. You can easily upgrade the electrics to 12v if you want/need to - perhaps for riding at night, for example.

4. You can easily upgrade the ignition system to a modern electronic one, if that makes you feel more confident.

Bad points (you knew there had to be some, right? :-) ).
1. They didn't make many of them - only about 600 according to Ian. So don't expect them to turn up too often ... So get your feelers out. For example, ask Steve A. to keep an eye out for one and also try posting some Want messages, for example here on this Forum and on to other Ducati networks. If you find a fellow enthusiast looking to move one on to someone who he believes will care for the bike, you could do very well.

Ciao

Craig